What's going on, Albuquerque?

Gary Johnson at GOP debates

http://www.slate.com/id/2304429/

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Permalink Reply by Mark on September 27, 2011 at 7:51pm

Nice. So the line of the night was a poop joke aimed at Obama - sounds about right.

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Permalink Reply by RunLikeADog on September 28, 2011 at 7:25am

I agree that it was a cheesy attempt at a sound bite. That aside, I do like Gary Johnson and believe he could just be what this country needs more so than my other favorite, Ron Paul.

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Permalink Reply by K on September 28, 2011 at 7:34am

I didnt know that poop scooping was a viable paying job that should be promoted by the government. Maybe the Johnson feels this to be a valid area of job creation through the use of stimulus money. Another right wing/libertarian sling toward Obama. I like Johnson's stance on legalizing drugs; just plain common sense, but he is stuck out in deep right field with no action coming his way.

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Permalink Reply by RunLikeADog on September 28, 2011 at 7:43am

Well... actually, poop scooping is a huge business. I know of two people that have left corporate jobs and started their own poop scooping business and are doing quite well. The problem Obama has is that he is trying to force jobs by throwing money at the issue. That's not the answer. He's swinging for the for the fence hoping to hit one out of the park when what he really needs to do is create an environment where small, entrepreneurial businesses and jobs can be created. Do that and everything else will fall into place.

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Permalink Reply by RebLem on September 29, 2011 at 10:40am

So, you think fixing the railroad roadbeds, and repairing highways and bridges so we don't have to wait for them to collapse and kill people is just some kind of nefarious socialist plot? These are things we have to do anyway. The difference between Republicants and Democrats is that Republicants don't want to do it until labor costs 20% more than it does now. Yeah, that's sensible government! Republicants think the best way to stimulate business if for the world's largest customer, the United States government, to cut back on what it buys, and the more it cuts back, the greater the stimulus. It makes no sense.

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Permalink Reply by RunLikeADog on September 29, 2011 at 10:46am

Eh? Where the heck did that come from? Fixing and maintaining infrastructure is vital to a thriving economy. But don't put all your eggs in that basket. It has to be balanced and I don't see that to be the case. Personally, I believe Obama will be our next prez. Not because he is the best man for the job, but because he will be the lesser of two evils which has been the norm in presidential elections for the past two decades. Not what I would call a ringing success of our electoral process, but it is what we have to work with.

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Permalink Reply by Ben Moffett on September 28, 2011 at 9:28am

Obama is not creating jobs because the water in the bowl is still being flushed...there's no stopping the mess George II got us into. Think back, Didn't everyone of us say before the presidential election predict that the person elected would be a one-term president? Didn't you say that? Now Obama struggles, succeeds in places not directly related to the economy, but may be able to win a second term, which will liberate him to do good. His opposition joked about him being the Messiah. If he gets re-elected, we may see that he is something akin to that: America's savior who beat back the forces of evil, the money changers in the (Wall Street?) temple and their cohorts in those $400,000 per year Congressional jobs who make their real money selling their votes..

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Permalink Reply by RebLem on September 29, 2011 at 11:59am

Well, Ben, I think you're a little too enthusiastic. I agree that Obama is the candidate to vote for, but I no longer hold anywhere near as much hope for him as I did in 2008. Now, let me say first that I think he did a lot of things right. I think on DADT, he did the right thing in insisting that Congress act. If he had simply decreed the end of DADT with a presidential directive, as many urged him to do, Congress would not have acted because there is too much of a downside for them. Just another reason for some people to vote against them. And then, the rule could have been changed via the same device by the next president. Obama had the wisdom and the stamina to brave the fury of his own supporters oin this issue and insist that Congress act so that the next president couldn't reverse it without Congressional action.

I also believe that Obama was right in doing health care. Here, he even had to oppose his then chief of staff, the current mayor of Chicago, who wanted to concentrate on jobs and let health care go until later. If he had done that, he never would have gotten the Affordable Care Act passed, and it was sorely needed. It is far from a perfect bill; in some ways it is a monstrosity, but we can amend it later. The important thing is to make the commitment, which the Democratic Party has now done.

And the stimulus bill and saving the American auto industry were good things, too. I bought some Ford stock in early 2009, and sold it for a huge (proportionally) profit 15 months later. I am not a big investor--my account at its height had $27,000 in it, but it was enough for me to make a 5% downpayment on a house and get out of the condo I had been living in. It really has changed my life, and it would have been impossible without the stimulus bill. Yes, I know, no aid went to Ford; it mostly went to GM, but withoiut GM in the business, many of the suppliers of both Ford and GM would have gone under, and it would probably not have been possible for Ford to do as well as they did. And things like this ripple through the economy. I cut back on fast food which supports minimum wage jobs so I could afford to channel more of my money to people who are well paid--contractors and their employees whom I needed to help me with making my condo salable and my new house more liveable. And I'm not even in the auto industry and never was. For people in the industry, the bailout was a Godsend. And the Republicans opposed it because they hate unions. They don't want an American auto industry. If we need tanks or other military vehicles, they want us to depend on Mercedes, or Toyota, or some Chinese company. One is entitled to ask what country they are really working for. Where are their real loyalties? They shoud call to mind the words of their patron saint, Ronald Reagan, the only American president to have the presidency of a labor union as part of his resume, who said, in 1987: "Where free unions and collective bargaining are forbidden, freedom is lost."

But Obama promised us Wall Street reform, and not a single person has been sent to jail except Bernie Madoff. He promised a cap and trade system to stop the coal companies from turning West Virginia into a flat, barren plain, and there has been no action on that. The GOPers ought to go for that if for no other reason than to allow former SC governor Sanford to continue hiking the full length of the Appalachian Trail.

No member of Congress or Congressional staffer makes $400,000 per annum in government salary. The only person who does make tha much money as salary in a federal government job is the POTUS. The only other people who make more on the taxpayers dime are coaches at state universities.

Obama is not a Messiah. I, for one, never thought he was. I never said he would be a one term president, and never heard any non-GOPer say that. The problem is that we have become an Alzheimers Nation. People on FOX deny that there were ever any terrorist attacks on the US during the Cheney Administration, and have already forgotten that Obama killed Osama. And I drive around Albuquerque and see crazy people driving expensive cars with bumper stickers that say, "Don't blame me, I voted for the AMERICAN." I think the networks should all rerun a clip from Obama's announcement that OBL had been killed every time they show a film of the Twin Towers flaming or collapsing. Maybe then, people would be able to keep it in mind.

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Permalink Reply by Lebowski on September 29, 2011 at 11:43am

Ben and the rest really have their work cut out for them defending Obama. You can Bush II all day long Ben, at some point you need to be accountable for the last 3 years, especially when you spent the first 2 completely in charge.

THIS President has done more for Wall Street than Bush II ever did, he's also siphoned trillions of dollars in "stimulus" money to phony green jobs and public sector unions to serve his own political agenda. He's also broken nearly every promise on defense that he made to the left. Democrats created the housing bubble, it wasn't deregulation by republicans. It was forcing banks to take on sub prime loans based on "fairness". Of course they tried to make money doing it...that's what they do.

I acknowledge the Iraq war money, and concede many of those points against it. I'm a Libertarian, I don't think we had any business over there. But pay for play and cronyism or any other misuse of money along those lines...Democrats are up to their eyeballs, you won't get far trying to paint the picture otherwise.

Infrastructure is and should be a huge part of recovery, but it should be mostly outsourced to the private sector. It should not be intentionally funneled to union jobs which is the intention of the Dems. It's the perfect slush fund, they get all of those compulsory dues in the form of campaign contributions and we overpay for the labor with our tax dollars. Then they give them all the day off to get bused into other precincts to vote 2 or 3 times. It's worse than any big oil scheme I've ever heard.

Between the Environmental opportunists and Union thugs...who can you trust if your just the average stinky hippy? I would be running to the green party if I were you.

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Permalink Reply by hettie on September 29, 2011 at 1:56pm

"union thugs"

less than 12% of the american workforce belongs to a union. given how much blame is heaved at "the unions," why are they such a tiny part of the workforce? can you explain how such a miniscule portion of american workers has such a disproportionate effect on the economy (facts are always important).

also, if you're going to make assertions like "Then they give them all the day off to get bused into other precincts to vote 2 or 3 times," you should provide a link or some evidence for your statement.

"Democrats created the housing bubble, it wasn't deregulation by republicans. It was forcing banks to take on sub prime loans based on "fairness". Of course they tried to make money doing it...that's what they do."

oh geez. um, do some reading. seriously.

you might begin with the financial crisis inquiry commission's report, whose conclusions can be summarized as "the crisis was avoidable and was caused by: Widespread failures in financial regulation, including the Federal Reserve’s failure to stem the tide of toxic mortgages; Dramatic breakdowns in corporate governance including too many financial firms acting recklessly and taking on too much risk; An explosive mix of excessive borrowing and risk by households and Wall Street that put the financial system on a collision course with crisis; Key policy makers ill prepared for the crisis, lacking a full understanding of the financial system they oversaw; and systemic breaches in accountability and ethics at all levels.“ here's a copy of the report.

you might also check here, here, & here for a general summation about the many complex causes that led to the housing bubble and related financial crisis. while such events are always being spun to support particular political agendas across the spectrum, there are underlying facts (i.e., what actually happened) that are an important part of understanding how our nation has come to where it is today and how we can shape where it will be in the future. we ignore them at our own peril.

also, sorry brendan! maybe some moderator could move this discussion to that group?

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Permalink Reply by Brendan on September 29, 2011 at 2:08pm

Afraid I don't have the power to move discussions around.

As it is more than a year away from the election season it's a good time to practice some political discussion hygiene before things get *really* ugly. That we all think and feel a great deal about this topic, it's a great time to rekindle the group. Everybody on this thread should try joining Talk Hard: Politics today!