Life, food, events, and community in Albuquerque, NM
Limited Streetcar @ $28,000,000 per Mile - Latest Public News
As I have said before the streetcar is back as an issue. City Councilor Issac Benton commented on the progress of the 21St Century Transportation Task Force yesterday and the their progress on analyzing a new limited street car proposal. The focus continues to be on a limited line running from the Rio Grande River through downtown and ending at UNM. The cost, an estimated $28,000,000 per mile.
This is an even more limited route that the "Old Town Trolly" ran ( it use to go to NobHill ), a tourist convenience that was discontinued. I'm not saying that the street car is a replacement, however it serves some of that purpose to provide a very limited service focused on a high passenger volume portion of the 66/766 route.
One argument has always been that the cost of operation of a streetcar is lower because of passenger mile density. That may be the case depending on the frequency of the service. Several recent comments elsewhere here point to the problems of transfers off the streetcar and onto continuing service for both local and RapidRide service.
Given we still do not have holiday service and many under served areas in the City bus wise, is this the best use of City capital and operating funds at this time?
If the Major or Council wants to sell this package, I think it should be contingent on a solid plan in place to expand general bus service throughout the City at the same time, including earlier and later service, holidays, and late night service routes year round.
It would be easier to sell the public on a general expansion plan with one tax and bond issue that would have measurable and predicable results. There are only so many times competing infrastructure projects , including APS, can go to the taxpayer well without finally having the public and businesses saying its enough already.
This is an even more limited route that the "Old Town Trolly" ran ( it use to go to NobHill ), a tourist convenience that was discontinued. I'm not saying that the street car is a replacement, however it serves some of that purpose to provide a very limited service focused on a high passenger volume portion of the 66/766 route.
One argument has always been that the cost of operation of a streetcar is lower because of passenger mile density. That may be the case depending on the frequency of the service. Several recent comments elsewhere here point to the problems of transfers off the streetcar and onto continuing service for both local and RapidRide service.
Given we still do not have holiday service and many under served areas in the City bus wise, is this the best use of City capital and operating funds at this time?
If the Major or Council wants to sell this package, I think it should be contingent on a solid plan in place to expand general bus service throughout the City at the same time, including earlier and later service, holidays, and late night service routes year round.
It would be easier to sell the public on a general expansion plan with one tax and bond issue that would have measurable and predicable results. There are only so many times competing infrastructure projects , including APS, can go to the taxpayer well without finally having the public and businesses saying its enough already.
Replies to This Discussion
-
Permalink Reply by Jay Brotz on -
At the Congress for New Urbanism in Austin in March, I attended a panel discussion on streetcars. The experts seemed to say that streetcars were rarely done to increase transportation options. After all, a streetcar is only a bit bigger than an articulated bus, and with enough busses you can shuttle more people. Rather, the reason for adopting a streetcar is economic growth. The idea is that putting a permanent transportation infrastructure in place increases both property values and density (transit-oriented development) around the rail line, be it heavy rail (RailRunner), light rail (streetcar on a dedicated right-of-way), or streetcar (in the travel lanes of cars). That idea has been argued for a couple of decades, but with evidence that it has worked in Portland, Seattle and Tacoma, more cities are planning them now. It is very sexy, and currently trendy in city planning. I was a fan of the project before I read the overwhelmingly negative opinion of it on this thread. I'm not saying I'm giving up on it completely, but I'm going to have to think about it more. After all, I live in an area that is never going to have great public transportation (foothills), though I have taken the bus downtown on the Lomas line a couple times, and I drive to work every day. So, before I read this thread, I didn't know how people who live along Central and take the bus every day felt.
I should point out that Kenosha (Wisconsin), Memphis, Tampa, Little Rock, and I think a few other cities in the US, also have streetcar systems, but they are either predominantly for tourism or just very short and haven't provided the kind of Transit-Oriented Development or the everyday tranportation options as the earlier examples.
-
Permalink Reply by Jay Brotz on
-
I think that other cities have shown the "old fashioned trolley cars" or other tourism-based streetcars have been very limited in their impact, and generally do not recoup their costs. I'm not saying it would necessarily be a bad thing, but a modern streetcar, whose primary function is public transportation (apart from the indirect function of transit-oriented development) could also be used by tourists, but would be much more important to non-tourists. Also, a short modern streetcar line can easily be expanded when the need and financing present themselves, whereas not many people would consider expanding a tourist train outside of the main tourist areas of the city.
I also think that the argument that it's streetcar vs. bus is a little overblown. Yes, if there is one public transportation fund, then the bus system would get less money while a streetcar is being built. But I don't think that it would be ignored. I think this city is going to need much more public transportation in the future, as density increases (infill seems to be happening at an increasing rate) and gas prices get ever higher. If a streetcar is built, I think we will still keep buying busses. In 30 years, I can imagine a streetcar system with 3 or 4 lines covering the densest parts of the city, and it seems like, if the money is there, now is not a bad time to start making that system. It seems that with a new streetcar on Central, the 66 bus would still run and the 766 would be replaced, freeing those busses for a new rapid-ride route somewhere else in the city.
I also think that some of the traffic concerns are overblown. A streetcar is just a bit bigger than a rapid-ride bus and travels at the same speed. If it replaced the rapid-ride busses along Central, the net traffic effect would be zero.
-
Permalink Reply by Jude on -
Now is not the time for a boutique form of public transportation. I do not believe that the timing is right for streetcar. Right now ABQ Ride needs to build capacity for the expanding ridership. As Mikaela mentioned, the modern streetcar was designed to attract riders that would not normally ride a bus. The word "bus" has a social stigma but the word "streetcar" on the other hand can conjure romantic images. I am hoping that the increase in fuel prices helped erode the negative connotations of bus riding. Commuters of any income level want efficient and reliable transportation.
I want to see this money put into the city transit system. Any citizen and elected official should understand that $28 million per mile is an absurd misuse of much needed transit funding. Google Maps shows that the shortest distance between Central and Rio Grande Blvd. and Central and Yale is 3.1 miles.
3 Miles X $28 Million= $84 Million
If I recall correctly the Rapid Ride busses cost under $800,000 per bus and the new 40 ft busses that went into service this year cost around $600,000 (please correct me if I am wrong, but I cannot find bus pricing anywhere). Suppose that the city instead used this money to run an additional 80 or so bus rapid transit busses. There are currently 18 busses in the existing Rapid Ride Fleet.
Frequency of busses could be increased on the overcrowded Red Line during peak hours and an extensive network could be added throughout the city. Such a proposal is not as glamorous as a street car, but it is an effective and substantial improvement on the existing system.
-
Permalink Reply by shotsie on -
Yeah, I agree with you - it would be far cheaper to buy more buses and expand service - it seems that Mayor Marty wants to spend public money in the worst possible way - there's just no return on the money that would be required for this and for a $300 M civic center/hotel (plus no one to lend the money - the mortgage crisis is knocking the stuffing out of banks.) It would be a far more efficient use of money to work with the state to renew the fairgrounds and to buy buses for transportation, plus the state would probably foot a good chunk of the bill (of course, we all pay for it).
It seems to me that the state is building the Railrunner for a lot less than $28M per mile - I know that they are using existing line, but the cost for the rail can't be that much....
-
Permalink Reply by Albuquerque Commentator on -
During the original dog and pony show on the streetcar, John you can correct me if I'm wrong, a significant portion of the cost of the street car line was redeveloping the street and utility infrastructure including power for the line. Again the proposal was being sold near the end as a way to boost "development" as well as "improved" service along the proposed line.
I'm wondering if the bronze plaque has been cast yet " Major Martin ( Marty) J. Chavez Streetcar Line".
-
Permalink Reply by Dave on -
With an issue this important involving such a large amount of money, and the potential enormous impact on the future of the city, I hope we all are able to vote on what we want for public transportation.
I would like to see a few different proposals and their costs and vote on the choices in a future election. I think the current transit tax is 0.125, so assuming that is correct the options might be…(1) option 1, modest expansion of ABQRide adding some new routes and some increase in hours, increase transit tax to .025 (2) option 2, larger expansion of ABQRide adding routes all over the city and a new Rapid Ride route or two, increase transit tax to .050 (3) massive expansion to really give people the option of going carless…including moderate sized streetcar/light rail system, new bus routes and Rapid Ride routes to every geographic area of the city and Rio Rancho, late night service, increased frequency, etc., increase transit tax to .075 and double fares.
I don’t favor a small streetcar line. If we are have streetcars, make the system large and go all over the city. If that isn’t realistic now, then more Rapid Ride buses all over the city. From my experience using subways and streetcars in Los Angeles/Long Beach and San Diego a few weeks ago, streetcars that have to battle traffic are no faster than our Rapid Ride buses.
-
Permalink Reply by Albuquerque Commentator on
-
Originally 1/4 of the 1/4 cent infrastructure tax, which will expire soon, was to be earmarked for "expansion of service". There is a long history which I have mentioned in other posts of mine about how that money was not properly allocated from FY2000-2005 according to the City's own internal audits. Internal audit concluded in the first five years the service was not better than in had been in 1999 despite the City having collected approximately $30,000,000 from the fund. Some of the monies were spent on "operations" instead of infrastructure as promised.
One potential problem is that "gross receipts tax" is the primary funder of many programs, and that may be on the decline as a revenue generator given the current state of the economy. A dedicated fare increase may be a better partial solution or an apportioned increase in the State fuel tax.
-
Permalink Reply by Albuquerque Commentator on
-
I would hope that Greg, the Major, and City Council members read the feedback here. There needs to be a comprehensive needs survey ( and I am not talking about the "statistical sample type of survey ) where as many current riders and non riders participate. I and the rest of the people participating in this and other bus discussions could write up a list of questions easily that get to the point and the needs in the community.
There is an argument to listening to a large sample of the general population and looking at the average/median. If the City is willing to spend $700,000 on a study for just the Event Center, more would be justified for public transit that has far more reaching and long term effects. One of the models to be looked at and improved upon was the public outreach done in the Greater Portland, Oregon metro area ... i pick on that only because it is everyone's favorite comparison even though the physical, cultural, and density is substantially different than Albuquerque.
-
Permalink Reply by once banned twice shy on
-
Albuquerque Commentator, why don't you forward this string to Greg, the Mayor and City Council members?
-
Permalink Reply by Albuquerque Commentator on
-
Ha! I'm on the enemies list, troublemaker that I am. There is nothing new in what I am saying that I and many other people have been saying since 2005 when the original audit reports have come out and there was no movement on replacing the old RTS buses that were not ADA compliant.
I do encourage everyone to get together and go to the Major & City Council.
It would not take much at this point to put together a comprehensive set of criteria for improvements from the customer viewpoint prioritized over a 1 - 3 - 5 - 10 year phase in and present it.
Maybe someone could pony up some $$ for some signs and start a rolling protest line in front of the ATC. The Major and Council tend to only react when there is a crisis or a protest of some sort or their reelection is threatened.
-
Permalink Reply by Master of Disaster on -
It looks like we pretty much all agree, that the bus system needs reworking, rerouting, and extended hours. Regardless of whether or not we end up with a street car/light rail. I say, let's not wait on it. It needs to be done and it won't break the bank. If the city council would make it a big enough priority, we might see expanded bus service by year's end. Not in 5-10 years. We need it now and it can be done. So, where is it?
Groups
-
Burqueños at the Inauguration
4 members
-
Neil Patrick Harris Fan Club
40 members
-
Living Green
214 members
-
ABQ Web Geeks
159 members
-
Downtown Dwellers
89 members
-
Albuquerque Yoga
56 members
© 2009 Created by chantal
